The West Block – Episode 35, Season 11 – National
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 35, Season 11
Sunday, June 26, 2022
Host: Mercedes Stephenson
Friends:
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Workers
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator
Location: Ottawa, ON
Mercedes Stephenson: This week on The West Block: One-on-one with Chief of the Defence Workers Common Wayne Eyre.
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Workers: “Now we have to take a 360 diploma view of the menace.”
Mercedes Stephenson: From modernizing NORAD, to sending navy aide to Ukraine. Are the Canadian forces able to tackle aggressive and complicated adversaries?
And addressing the hazard from inside: sexual misconduct.
Louise Arbour, Former Supreme Court docket Justice: “The CAF is at the moment sitting on lots of of suggestions.”
Mercedes Stephenson: Within the wake of the Arbour report, we’ll ask Canada’s prime normal what he’s doing to vary the navy.
And, the Conservative Social gathering at a crossroads…
Pierre Poilievre, Conservative Management Candidate: “I’m operating for Prime Minister to place you again in charge of your life by making Canada the freest nation on earth by eradicating the gatekeepers.”
Mercedes Stephenson: Pierre Poilievre’s populist message is attracting new members to the celebration, however is it alienating reasonable Conservative voters? An unique interview with Conservative Social gathering veteran and former Senator Marjory LeBreton, who breaks her silence on issues concerning the celebration’s future.
It’s Sunday, June 26th, and that is The West Block.
Hey. Thanks for becoming a member of us at present. I’m Mercedes Stephenson.
NATO leaders, together with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, are assembly in Madrid this week. The summit comes because the Canadian navy faces rising stress to do extra to deal with an ever-expanding listing of worldwide safety threats.
From warfare in Ukraine…
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy: “We’re preventing for our future, for our freedom.”
Mercedes Stephenson: … To rising Chinese language aggression. Incessantly zooming previous, the planes a mere 20-100 ft away.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “China’s actions are irresponsible and provocative.”
Lloyd Austin, U.S. Secretary of Defence: “Because the PRC adopts a extra coercive and aggressive method to its territorial claims.”
Mercedes Stephenson: And a sexual misconduct scandal amongst the navy’s highest ranks that continues to reverberate and has shaken the troops and the general public’s belief.
Louise Arbour, Former Supreme Court docket Justice: “I simply hope that these suggestions don’t find yourself a bit of field on the chart of the numerous which can be nonetheless being studied.”
Mercedes Stephenson: The Canadian Armed Forces are going through unprecedented challenges in a harmful world, one that’s demanding extra of those that serve not simply to combat wars however assist in pandemics and cope with local weather change induced disasters, all on a restricted finances.
To speak about all this, I’m joined by the Chief of the Defence Workers Common Wayne Eyre. Thanks for becoming a member of us at present, Common Eyre. Good to see you.
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: Thanks for having me, Mercedes.
Mercedes Stephenson: You could have a particularly busy and essential job at a time in world historical past like we’ve not seen in lots of, a few years when it comes to the threats that we have been simply speaking about in that opening package deal. What, in your view, is the state of the world when it comes to safety and Canada’s nationwide safety?
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: Properly Mercedes, I believe historical past goes to look upon this era as maybe a turning level within the world order, as a result of the foundations based mostly worldwide order beneath which we’ve got thrived for generations is as fragile because it has ever been. And I believe for the remainder of our lives, we’re going to see an order that’s characterised by confrontation. Confrontation between, on one facet, the authoritarian states on the earth and the others, the liberal democracies and in order that menace is actual.
Now over the course of the final variety of weeks, I’ve travelled and have had quite a few conversations with my counterparts, chiefs of defence in our closest allies in Europe, in Asia-Pacific and they’re all very involved. The specter of world battle, of nice energy battle is as nice because it has been in many years. So we must be fearful.
Mercedes Stephenson: I believe that for those who’re fearful, most Canadians are fearful listening to that. And it’s no secret the Canadian Armed Forces wants cash. You want individuals. You’re struggling to recruit. Are you able to coping with these sorts of threats that aren’t going away?
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: So the Canadian Armed Forces is our nation’s insurance coverage coverage. Our final insurance coverage coverage, if you wish to put it that means. And so we’ve obtained to pay the premiums on that insurance coverage coverage. We’ve obtained to be sure that we’ve got the readiness to have the ability to react to those crises at residence and internationally. And we’ve obtained to ensure we’ve obtained the individuals to have the ability to do this. So individuals, capabilities, coaching and sustainment are crucial for that readiness.
Mercedes Stephenson: However do you may have that?
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: Do we’ve got that? Properly it relies on a scale. Yeah, we will reply however with how a lot and for the way lengthy and with what capabilities. You understand there’s no navy commander in historical past who’s had all of the capabilities that they’ve wished, however there are some that we’d like to have the ability to reply adequately on this world. We’ve obtained to ensure our coaching is as much as energy. We’d like to ensure our—or as much as necessities—we’ve obtained to ensure our personnel energy is the place it must be. The capabilities that we’d like to have the ability to prosecute—or have the ability to have interaction in a 21st century battle, one the place expertise is quickly advancing—we’ve obtained to be sure that we’ve got these capabilities as properly.
Mercedes Stephenson: But it surely sounds to me like you may have issues about whether or not you may have sufficient individuals, sufficient coaching, and sufficient capabilities.
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: Oh, I’ve large issues in many various areas, you already know, starting from individuals, to capabilities, to readiness. And so it’s a fragile steadiness day by day as we check out at present’s operational output, as we check out the place we have to make investments individuals to modernize, to vary insurance policies, to ship on capabilities. So it’s a balancing act.
Proper now, we’re going by way of what we name reconstitution. A reconstitution is a navy time period for rebuilding after an operation. The operation that we’re speaking about is the pandemic, which has not been type to the Canadian forces as our operational tempo is elevated and our numbers have decreased. So we’ve obtained to rebuild. Rebuild our numbers, however on the identical time, construct for that future with the capabilities, the fore construction and the competencies which can be crucial.
Mercedes Stephenson: You’ve been sending lots of materials to Ukraine, together with materials that you simply’ve needed to basically borrow from the Individuals as a result of we didn’t have it. What have an effect on is the federal government help for Ukraine having on Canadian warfare shares and our potential to prosecute a warfare if we needed to?
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: So we’ve got taken a take a look at what’s in our stock, we’ve donated a few of that. We’ve bought some from allies. We’ve bought some from business. I’m fearful about our shares of such commodities as ammunition. And so it’s a fragile balancing act of what we donate at present, what we save for future contingencies and what we will get from business.
Once we take a look at what we donate, we’ve obtained to watch out about simply donating a bit of kit. We’ve obtained to take a look at it as a functionality set. Artillery is one instance. So if we simply donate a gun with out the accompanying ammunition, coaching, spare components, it’s only a hunk of medal. And so investing in spare components, investing in ammunition, and we’ve simply introduced 20 thousand plus rounds of 155 ammunition. However coaching, coaching is the one factor the place Canada has actually created a strategic impact. As we converse, we’re coaching Ukrainian troopers on—Canadian, American, Australian M777 programs in a 3rd location. We’ve educated lots of of Ukrainian troopers on this artillery system. That’s value-added.
Mercedes Stephenson: You talked about cash, and clearly, defence chiefs all the time need extra, but it surely’s been a very long time because you had an injection. We have been each at an announcement final week on Monday, about $4.9 billion going to NORAD. You talked concerning the threats like cruise missiles and hypersonic missiles, which we’ve seen utilized in Ukraine, in a position to defeat our defensive programs. Very completely different than the nuclear world that NORAD was constructed for.
I’ve heard from a lot of defence sources that that $4.9 billion is definitely being re-profiled from inside the division and isn’t new cash. Have you learnt if that’s true?
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: So, I haven’t utterly discovered myself, the supply of funds for this so I can’t say definitively the place it’s coming from. You understand I’ll say, although, the announcement was welcome. However when it comes to continental defence, defending this continent, what we checked out with NORAD modernization that’s justly air area. So, as a part of our defence coverage replace, we’ve obtained to take a look at the opposite domains. We’ve obtained to take a look at house. We’ve obtained to take a look at cyber. Maritime, each floor and particularly sub-surface with the submarine menace, and we’ve obtained to take a look at land in order that we will create a persistent presence within the extremities of our nation. So extra infrastructure in far north.
Mercedes Stephenson: Is your division proper now, although, having to take a look at the opportunity of chopping sure applications to redirect that $4.9 billion to NORAD, as a result of my understanding is there are conferences at Nationwide Defence as we talk about that, and actual concern this cash just isn’t new.
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: So we haven’t checked out chopping however as all the time, we’ve got to take a look at rebalancing. And the drive that we’ve got at present just isn’t the drive that we’d like for tomorrow. So, we have to take a look at drive construction. Do we’ve got it in the appropriate place? Do we have to take a look at re-rolling of models in order that they undertake roles which can be extra related for the long run safety atmosphere? That’s all-important.
Mercedes Stephenson: I believe, clearly, heaps extra to return on that NORAD cash and lots of issues of we don’t know the place it’s coming from, as a result of it’s an enormous price ticket if it’s not a brand new injection of funds and the navy clearly wants more cash to maintain doing all of the issues that you simply’re being requested to do.
Sexual misconduct additionally clearly an enormous problem for you. You talked about recruiting. My understanding is the latest numbers present that solely 4 per cent of recent recruits are girls. The sexual misconduct scandal continues to reverberate. There proceed to be senior officers charged. One retired—properly really each retired now, charged with sexual assault, courting again to RMC. Numerous questions on what you’re going to do to vary the tradition.
Once we final spoke about this, I requested you what your place was on RMC. Since then, a lot of grads posted their image saying they have been proud RMC grads and indicating they didn’t consider change was crucial. What are your ideas on that?
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: So we’ve obtained to embrace the advice that Madame Arbour had in her report and we’ve got to have a dispassionate take a look at is the establishment fit-for-purpose for the 21st century and producing what is required. You understand many are happy with the post-secondary establishment that they got here from, however we’ve got to have an open thoughts as we go ahead and have that look with out emotion as to what’s greatest for Canada, what’s greatest for the Canadian Armed Forces to supply the leaders that we’d like for the long run.
Mercedes Stephenson: Trevor Cadieu was a star navy performer anticipated to be the subsequent commander of the military. He has now been charged with sexual assault, courting again to his time at RMC, a kind of officers we have been speaking about. There’s been lots of senior officers, nonetheless in uniform, defending him publicly, in some circumstances saying that individuals shouldn’t be known as a sufferer by the media till it’s been by way of the courts and I’ve had a lot of sexual misconduct victims and survivors attain out to me and say how are we supposed to return ahead if that is nonetheless the atmosphere? Nothing is altering.
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: In order we go ahead, we’ve obtained to proceed to be taught from each new case and understand that our actions, actions of people, can have affect means past what was meant, and particularly on social media, as we be taught to function on this new atmosphere.
You understand I’ll inform you that the Restorative Engagement program that we’ve got undertaken, I believe, goes to be a sport changer when it comes to understanding, on the emotional degree, the affect of this. And the suggestions that I’ve had from the defence cohort, the preliminary tranche of people, of members who’ve gone by way of this, have instructed me that it’s a number of the most profound expertise when it comes to understanding what others have gone by way of that they’ve had.
So, we’re going to proceed to be taught. Are there going to be missteps alongside the best way? Completely. It is a human group and we have to be taught and proceed to be taught and proceed to develop and proceed to make this establishment higher.
Mercedes Stephenson: When Common Cadieu was scheduled to turn into the military commander, it was within the fall. I’ve seen an electronic mail suggesting that you simply knew about allegations in opposition to him as early as July. Is that true?
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: No. So, once I was knowledgeable of allegations on the 5th of September, took speedy motion and didn’t put him in control of the military at that time.
Mercedes Stephenson: So that you weren’t conscious of any sort of concern a couple of earlier relationship previous to that?
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: No allegations have been raised to me. Now, on condition that this case in entrance of the courts, we must always most likely not focus on it in any extra element.
Mercedes Stephenson: One final query to you. China, clearly an enormous concern, buzzing Canadian jets. You’ve been speaking to your counterparts. How important is that menace and what do you suppose the Chinese language are attempting to attain by doing this?
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: So we’ve seen an elevated variety of unsafe, unprofessional interactions over the course of the final variety of deployments we’ve had and our allies have seen the identical factor. And so the sense is that they need to deter us, to dissuade us from working in that a part of the world. You understand as we uphold the foundations based mostly worldwide order, we’ve obtained to name out threats in opposition to it the place we see it. As a result of freedom of navigation, particularly in—properly freedom of navigation, freedom of operation in worldwide airspace, worldwide waters, has obtained to be revered.
I simply met with the Japanese ambassador a number of hours in the past and we mentioned this. And I met with the Japanese defence minister and the Japanese chief of defence final—two weeks in the past. And they’re very, very welcome—welcoming of our presence in that space. And so we’ve obtained to proceed to work responsibly, have interaction responsibly with our allies in that a part of the world. And a lot of the way forward for the world when it comes to financial progress is predicated in that a part of the world. Canada is a pacific nation and so we must be there.
Mercedes Stephenson: Common Eyre, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us at present. We recognize your time.
Common Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Workers: Thanks.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, a excessive profile Conservative speaks out along with her issues concerning the course of the celebration. From convoy help to populism, former Senator Marjory LeBreton joins us along with her views after the break.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: The Conservative Social gathering of Canada appears to be looking for its identification, torn between Tory traditionalism and populist forces. Assist for the convoy that paralyzed downtown Ottawa in February has been a breakpoint for a lot of, with management frontrunner Pierre Poilievre endorsing the demonstrators whereas different Conservatives have expressed concern about supporting a breach of a conventional Conservative worth: legislation and order. Issues about the place the celebration goes after some Conservative MPs hosted key members of the convoy on Parliament Hill final week are a subject of scorching debate contained in the celebration proper now.
Becoming a member of us to speak about all this can be a former assured to prime minis—confidante, pardon me—to Prime Minister Stephen Harper, and naturally, former authorities chief within the Senate Marjory LeBreton. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us.
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Properly it’s my pleasure to be right here, Mercedes. Good to see you.
Mercedes Stephenson: Good to see you, too, in-person, after a few years it appears, within the pandemic.
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Yeah. A couple of years since I’ve achieved this.
Mercedes Stephenson: And, you already know, once I’d final talked to you, it felt like what the Conservative Social gathering was, was a reasonably stable factor. You would wrap your arms round it. You understand what it meant. Now there are lots of questions. And I needed to marvel what you have been pondering while you noticed Conservative MPs internet hosting key members of the convoy on Parliament Hill this week. What are your ideas on that?
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Properly, I’m a conventional Conservative and one of many cornerstones, the primary cornerstones of conservatism is legislation and order. And legislation and order is legislation and order. And unlawful blockades are unlawful blockades, whether or not they’re at a border crossing, a pipeline, a railway—a railway line. They’re unlawful and the complete drive of the legislation must be introduced in to cope with them. And you’ll’t have, you already know, block the Metropolis of Ottawa and say that’s okay. But it surely’s not okay for another group to dam a railroad. So I used to be simply—the entire thought of wrecking a cornerstone of conservatism in legislation and order was type of actually, actually upsets me and I’m very, very fearful, Mercedes, about what’s taking place to the celebration and what’s taking place throughout this management debate.
Mercedes Stephenson: What do you suppose the chance is for the celebration right here if it continues on this course?
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: You understand I mentioned yesterday to a good friend, I actually worry that the nice lodging that was reached between Stephen Harper and Peter MacKay within the fall of 2003 is fracturing past restore. And we’ve got this management debate occurring, the celebration inexperienced lit six candidates they usually all—they’re bringing their very own concepts to the desk, however the thought of you already know, accusing individuals of mendacity and crooks—I imply, this isn’t the controversy we must be having. We must be having a debate about who we’re, what we stand for and what we might do if we have been to kind a authorities, as a result of Canadians will not be averse to voting for Conservatives. You understand eight of the ten provinces have Conservative governments or Conservative main governments. So relatively than have this vicious grievance pushed, gasoline on the fireplace debate we’re having proper now, is simply to me, I hate to say it, however I’m afraid that the Conservative Social gathering that I’ve been a member of all my life is totally international to me.
Mercedes Stephenson: Do you are feeling such as you not have a house within the celebration or might it come to that?
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Properly I really really feel that means. If we don’t get it proper this time, we’ve had three management debates now within the final six and a half years. If we don’t get it proper this time and the members of our celebration, and it might be good if the celebration would give the membership listing to the candidates, if they may have a correct debate, respectful and respect one another and put concepts on the desk about what we might do if we might kind the federal government. Neglect about blaming this individual or that individual, throwing gasoline on the fireplace and speak concerning the points. And naturally, I’m concerned with a company now known as Centre Ice Conservatives, as a result of we’re attempting to get individuals to speak about points about the place individuals stay and points individuals care about. And, you already know, we’ve obtained this debate on the intense left after which on the intense proper and the entire individuals like myself within the reasonable mainstream center, centre proper Conservatives, just like the oxygen’s been sucked out of the air. And so we’re attempting, in Centre Ice Conservatives, is to really foster a debate amongst the candidates. Now a number of the candidates are attempting, however so long as you may have the scorched earth coverage leaping on the grievance brigade, we’re by no means—you already know, it’s an incredible disservice to the celebration, however worse, it’s a horrible disservice to the nation, as a result of the nation wants a viable political alternative. Proper now we’ve got an incompetent authorities, who’re a scatterbrain method to every part, ethically challenged and its individuals need an alternate. Now we have to be electable. Now we have to win an election to ensure that any of the problems that we care about to be addressed. So, while you mark your poll, you must think about who you suppose is one of the best person who’s electable in the entire nation.
Mercedes Stephenson: I’ve to ask you about Pierre Poilievre.
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Yeah.
Mercedes Stephenson: I do know you’ve recognized Pierre since he was a younger man.
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Yeah. Yeah.
Mercedes Stephenson: You’ve labored very carefully with him. You reside in his driving, I consider.
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Yeah. I labored within the final marketing campaign, volunteering, answering the cellphone within the marketing campaign workplace.
Mercedes Stephenson: I hear you’ve resigned off of his board of administrators.
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Yeah. Sure, I did.
Mercedes Stephenson: Why is that?
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Properly it was, once more, over the convoy. As a result of I felt that, you already know, the legislation is the legislation. Unlawful blockades are unlawful blockades and I felt that he and others within the celebration really—you could possibly simply inform this isn’t going to finish properly. And really, the blame for all of this must be on the ft of the prime minister. However when we’ve got individuals who ship alerts that in some way or different they’ll help one sort of a protest or I name it an unlawful blockade as a result of that’s what it was and is. Sure, that’s true, I’m not a member of the board however I’ve moved on from there.
Mercedes Stephenson: Was that onerous so that you can do, to work for somebody you’ve recognized so properly?
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Extraordinarily exhausting. Extraordinarily exhausting. I imply, you already know, and I’ve obtained good associates within the—and so consequently, I really haven’t gotten concerned in anybody’s marketing campaign. I did—I did early on, attempt to—I used to be a part of an advisory group to get Tasha Keridan into the race. She would have been an impressive candidate. However then when she determined to not get into the race, I made a decision to spend my time with Centre Ice Conservatives and try to affect the controversy from that viewpoint.
Mercedes Stephenson: Properly we recognize you approaching. I do know it’s not a straightforward factor to speak a couple of celebration…
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: No, it isn’t.
Mercedes Stephenson: …that you simply’ve devoted your life to love this.
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: I’m very, very fearful concerning the—properly I’m very fearful for our celebration, however I’m very fearful for the nation as properly as a result of we’re in large bother on this nation.
Mercedes Stephenson: Marjory LeBreton, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us.
Marjory LeBreton, Retired Conservative Senator: Thanks for having me.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, because the Home breaks for the summer season, remaining ideas on a number of the main tales that dominated the political panorama.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: The Home of Commons wrapped up its spring session final week. MPs gained’t return till September, the place it is going to be one other hybrid sitting of Parliament—another reminder of pandemic politics persisting.
It’s been fairly a 12 months to date, from the convoy demonstrations, to warfare in Ukraine, inflation, gun management and journey woes and now, budding questions on potential interference within the RCMP Mass Casualty Fee.
The politics by no means cease, however our present will probably be taking a short break for the summer season. Thanks to our crew for all of their exhausting work this 12 months, and to you for becoming a member of us every Sunday. We’ll see you again right here in September. For The West Block, I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Have an incredible summer season.
