The West Block – Episode 33, Season 11 – National
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 33, Season 11
Sunday, June 12, 2022
Host: Mercedes Stephenson
Friends:
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada
Patrick Brown, Conservative Management Candidate
Location: Ottawa, ON
Mercedes Stephenson: This week on The West Block: Canada and the USA on the world stage. From Chinese language escalation and struggle in Ukraine…
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “It’s terribly essential to be there for every and to be there for our allies around the globe.”
Mercedes Stephenson: …To defending North America and our homeland.
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: “Canada must make a judgement of what’s sufficient to spend?”
Mercedes Stephenson: We sit down with U.S. Ambassador David Cohen about two democracies going through threats from overseas and inside.
And, the potential for power safety by Alberta.
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: “We’ve all the time been concerned with extra oil and gasoline, from Alberta or from wherever else.”
Mercedes Stephenson: And, a management race or a coronation? The way forward for the Conservative Celebration.
Patrick Brown, Conservative Management Candidate: “I don’t see us successful any new seats. Truly, I see us dropping seats if we run on the identical discriminatory insurance policies that Pierre Poilievre’s had a historical past of supporting.”
Mercedes Stephenson: With get together membership numbers out now, can any candidate not named Pierre Poilievre, win? We’ll communicate with management contender Patrick Brown.
It’s Sunday, June 12th, and that is The West Block.
Whats up, I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Thanks for becoming a member of us immediately.
Properly, it’s not fairly the ‘bromance’ that Justin Trudeau had with President Obama, but it surely was clear that the Liberal authorities was trying to sign a detailed relationship with the USA on the Summit of the Americas this previous week, sending a transparent sign to these at residence and overseas.
U.S. President Joe Biden: “We now have no higher pal in the entire world that Canada. And that’s not hyperbole. That’s actual. And also you’re private pal as nicely.”
Mercedes Stephenson: President Biden says he’s planning a go to to Canada in coming months, so what’s more likely to be on the agenda? Properly, I sat down with U.S. Ambassador to Canada David Cohen, to search out out what’s forward for our two international locations. Right here’s that dialog.
Ambassador Cohen, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us. It’s nice to have you ever on the present.
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: Properly thanks for inviting me. It’s good to be on the present.
Mercedes Stephenson: I do know that you’re a pal of Canada’s. I’ve been to the USA, lived in the USA. It’s such an extremely particular relationship, and we discuss it and it’s straightforward to get into the platitudes however there are actual challenges, too. Not simply between our international locations however in them. Whether or not individuals are on the left or the correct, they’ll discuss they really feel democracy is backsliding. We’re in a world the place there may be struggle in Ukraine, the place the Chinese language authorities is turning into more and more aggressive. What do you assume is the important thing precedence within the relationship proper now for Canada and the USA going ahead?
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: So I believe the important thing precedence is to construct on the power of the connection and the sturdiness of the connection. There have been some rocky moments earlier than Joe Biden turned president and I believe there’s a have to rebuild some belief and to have interaction on a number of the areas the place we might not be in full settlement on day one and to reap the benefits of the love and the closeness that all of us really feel on each side of the border for working collectively and rising a relationship. So, I believe the important thing concern is engagement and dealing collectively to nurture what’s, I believe, for the USA our most essential relationship and allyship from a commerce perspective, from a defence perspective, from an intelligence perspective and from a private perspective and to develop it.
Mercedes Stephenson: We’ve heard our prime minister, Justin Trudeau, communicate fairly a bit concerning the backsliding of democracy and it’s not so veiled that he’s speaking about America and with the hearings on what occurred on January 6th occurring in the USA. What are your ideas as an American on the state of democracy there? Ought to Canada be involved? Ought to Canada be taking a look at recalibrating its relationship with the USA?
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: So I believe the prime minister is totally proper to speak about dangers to democracy. President Biden talks about it as nicely, as a result of democracy is below problem. There’s little question about it. But it surely’s not solely in the USA. Canada with the trucker convoy had its personal wrestling with challenges to democracy, and there have been challenges to democracy in Germany and Brazil and Japan, frankly all through all of Europe and it’s a difficult time for democracy. There may be this—all around the globe—this populous motion of extremists who’re utilizing populism to try to undermine democracy and you’ve got Russia and China the place it’s very a lot of their curiosity to undermine democracy. However you might be speaking to the everlasting optimist right here. I’m all the time a glass half full sort of a man and I firmly imagine, I revocably imagine, that democracy will prevail. We could need to work by some points. There could also be some tough patches, however on the finish of the day you fight these tough patches with the power of democracy, with dialogue, with working along with different democracies. And we’re right here simply having wrapped up the Summit for the Americas, the place democracy was entrance and centre all through that complete summit. Every part from who bought invited and who didn’t get invited to the conversations that occurred within the summit and it was a chance for the hemispheres democracies to get collectively to reaffirm their religion in democracy and it’s workout routines like that that construct the power of democracies and I believe so long as we’ve leaders like Joe Biden and Justin Trudeau that democracy will all the time prevail over autocracies like what exists in China and in Russia.
Mercedes Stephenson: I do know the Canadian authorities promised to spend so much extra on defence, promised—talked about attending to the two per cent of GDP that’s required for NATO. I learn a few of your latest feedback on the finances. It appeared such as you weren’t tremendous impressed with what the Liberal authorities is spending. Do you assume that Canada must spend extra and the way rapidly do you assume that should occur in that case?
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: So a bonus of with the ability to discuss dwell on tv is I get a bit extra nuance to my feedback. My feedback about Canada’s defence spending had been extra made in reference to the rhetoric from Canada main as much as the finances, the place I believe there was an impression created that there could be a bigger improve in defence spending that there ended up being. So the—I don’t even like utilizing the phrase—however the potential disappointment, if you’ll, was extra compared to the rhetoric. $8 billion of extra spending in defence, even over 5 years is a rise in defence spending. It’s the largest funding that Canada has made in a few years and it’s not the one funding.
Mercedes Stephenson: However is it sufficient?
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: Properly, bear in mind there’s one other $6 billion within the finances but to be outlined for defence and there are quite a few defence points that Canada is engaged on and is dedicated to that aren’t coated within the finances, together with an announcement on NORAD modernization, which is able to inevitably contain extra sources, together with Canada’s determination to proceed with the F-35 procurements, which will likely be a significant improve in Canada’s air pressure. That’s $19 billion over 5 years that’s additionally not included within the finances and there may be Minister Anand’s dedication that Canada is present process a defence evaluation, which additionally will seemingly name for extra spending. So I don’t know that I’m able to say what’s sufficient. I imply, I believe Canada as a sovereign nation has to determine learn how to steadiness its fiscal priorities and learn how to steadiness its finances. Canada, although, in making these assessments did pledge within the Wales commitments to maneuver its defence spending to 2 per cent of GDP. This spending doesn’t try this.
There’s a report that was launched this week that predicts that on its present trajectory, Canada gained’t get to 2 per cent over a 5 yr interval, however the report notes that Canada will transfer nearer to the two per cent degree. And so I don’t assume as the USA Ambassador to Canada it’s acceptable for me to say a technique or one other, what’s sufficient and what isn’t sufficient. I believe Canada has a agency sense of the significance of defence, notably in gentle of what’s occurring in Russia-Ukraine, notably in what you talked about earlier with China’s growing aggressiveness and I believe Canada must make a judgement of what’s sufficient to spend by the use of defence and the way rapidly they should transfer to have the ability to get there. And I’ve a excessive degree of confidence that Canada and the USA are very aligned on defence precedence and the necessity for Canada to put money into its personal defence and for Canada and the USA to proceed to work collectively on defence targets, together with in NORAD. It’s week to speak about this as a result of the prime minister made a go to to NORAD, his first and the primary of any prime minister visiting NORAD since his father visited NORAD in 1977. And I believe the symbolism of that was actually essential and it was essential to the USA as a result of it was a really direct expression that this prime minister cares about NORAD, understands the significance of NORAD and is dedicated to defence.
Mercedes Stephenson: Oil and gasoline, large matter proper now with what’s occurring in Ukraine and Russia shutting off the faucets, not desirous to be importing Russian oil, as a result of it’s an enormous a part of that nation’s struggle engine that’s contributing to cash to combating Ukraine. You had been requested about the potential for extra Canadian and particularly Albertan oil and gasoline, going to the USA and also you mentioned that you just mainly weren’t actually on the lookout for a lot nearer relationship. That actually hit a sizzling spot with Alberta’s power minister. She known as the feedback “ill-informed and unproductive.” So I suppose I need to put that to you and likewise ask you why wouldn’t you be open to extra Alberta oil and gasoline?
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: So what I mentioned was the USA would all the time be open to extra Alberta oil and gasoline. Let’s bear in mind, the primary supply of oil and gasoline in the USA immediately is Canada, and most of that comes from Alberta. We’re the primary importer of oil and gasoline from Alberta and what I mentioned is we’d all the time be concerned with extra oil and gasoline from Alberta or from wherever else. However, let’s go and outline our phrases, which is we’ve a brief time period disaster with costs on the gasoline pumps. It’s fully unclear, in actual fact, I don’t assume yow will discover an economist wherever who would say that there’s something that the USA might do with Alberta or with Canada that might materially affect costs on the gasoline pumps proper now. And you need to take a look at the quick time period versus the long run what’s the capability of Alberta to have the ability to improve its move of power to the USA proper now within the very quick run to have the ability to alleviate a short lived worth scenario with costs on the gasoline pumps and it’s fairly restricted. And on this present, I’m not going to get into is it 300 thousand barrels a day or one other 200 thousand. No matter these numbers are, they’re not sufficient. They’re not going to materially affect proper now, immediately, this yr, costs on the gasoline pump and that’s what I used to be saying.
While you begin wanting long run, we’ve the co-objective of local weather change and the commitments that we’ve made—we the USA—and the dedication that Canada has made to get to internet zero emissions by 2050 with interim targets earlier than that, and what I mentioned was that as a coverage goal within the power area, we’ve to be very cautious about making main investments, tens of billions of {dollars} of investments that can produce extra fossil fuels 5 years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now that can improve emissions and make it tough or unimaginable to realize the local weather change targets that we have to obtain. So we’re for a balanced method and that’s all I used to be saying. Once more, we’re essentially the most vital purchaser of oil and gasoline from Alberta. We get extra oil and gasoline from Canada than every other place on the planet. We’d purchase extra oil and gasoline from Alberta if it was obtainable immediately and we’d be concerned with doing so. However over the long run, we’re at the very least equally , take one other Canadian power export in hydropower, the place I’ve had an opportunity to go to Hydro Quebec and intensely impressed with the latest deal that obtained regulatory approval on the USA that can find yourself supplying 1 / 4 of the electrical energy for New York Metropolis, with the capability to develop that to New Jersey, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, different north-eastern states in the USA. Clear power dedication.
Mercedes Stephenson: Any go to to Alberta anytime quickly?
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: The reply is sure. I noticed on her remark, I’ve by no means talked to her. I’ve talked to the premier and I’ve talked about this topic. And he’s invited me to return to Alberta and to see the oil sands and I instructed him on the time I might be delighted to take action and I’m making an attempt to determine on my schedule once I can try this. However I’m really going to try to try this this summer season.
Mercedes Stephenson: Ambassador thanks a lot for taking the time to take a seat down with us, it was nice to speak to you.
David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: Properly thanks for giving me all this time and it’s good to see you.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, the fractious Conservative management marketing campaign hits a membership milestone. We’ll ask candidate Patrick Brown if he nonetheless has a path to victory. That’s subsequent.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: This week, the Conservative Celebration mentioned 600 thousand folks had signed as much as vote within the upcoming management contest. That’s greater than double the quantity of people that signed as much as vote within the final management vote in 2020.
Pierre Poilievre’s staff say they’ve registered greater than half of these members. So what’s the trail to victory for the opposite candidates? Properly we’ve one among them becoming a member of us immediately. It’s Brampton Mayor Patrick Brown. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us immediately, Mr. Brown. Good to see you.
Patrick Brown, Conservative Management Candidate: My pleasure.
Mercedes Stephenson: So I suppose the large query is what number of memberships have you ever bought and do you assume there’s a path to victory right here in a world the place Pierre has over half the members signing up?
Patrick Brown, Conservative Management Candidate: Properly I don’t assume anybody concerned on this race believes Pierre Poilievre’s claims of what number of memberships that he’s bought as a result of if his claims are right, then nobody else bought any memberships and clearly, that’s not the case.
I do know my marketing campaign put in over 150 thousand memberships. We had been working from the early morning each day to late at evening on a membership drive from coast to coast to coast and we’re happy with our tally.
Mercedes Stephenson: So if Pierre’s numbers are off, and it sounds such as you say he’s not telling the reality about them, he’s claiming about 312 thousand. You’d nonetheless, even when he’s off by 100 thousand, be considerably behind him. So how do you persuade individuals who purchased a membership below Mr. Poilievre probably to vote for you?
Patrick Brown, Conservative Management Candidate: Properly to start with, I’m unsure how a lot he’s off. I’m not going to get right into a guessing recreation, however actually there are 5 campaigns that need the membership record launched and there’s one which doesn’t. That’s Pierre. I believe that speaks volumes. I’d additionally say the truth that he continues to assault my marketing campaign with a scorched earth method, I believe, speaks to the truth that he’s not assured. That doesn’t go away the impression of a assured frontrunner. It appears like a marketing campaign that’s fearful and in some circumstances, determined to resort to these strategies.
Our message is, and continues to be, who can really win? I do know Pierre is taking some positions to drive membership gross sales, however they proceed to make him unelectable. I do know one among his main positions was on magic web cash, crypto foreign money. And if you happen to noticed what occurred in El Salvador, if you happen to noticed what occurred since he advisable Canadians put money into crypto foreign money, 40 per cent of the worth misplaced. Actually, these coverage bulletins that he’s made are a present to Justin Trudeau, a present to the Liberal Celebration. And my message to his supporters, and albeit all Conservative Celebration members, is we have to elect somebody on this race who can win the place the Liberal Celebration has dominated and that’s in suburban Canada. In locations just like the GTA, we should win if we’re going to have any likelihood to forming the following authorities, and I imagine I’ve bought the insurance policies and the monitor report that I can try this. I’ve bought a historical past of successful in suburban Canada. I’ve gained in Brampton. I’ve gained bi-elections in locations like Scarborough, the place frankly the get together, lately, has been worn out.
Mercedes Stephenson: You’ve a tricky determination to make developing since you’re the mayor of Brampton proper now and the papers to run once more for mayor are due in August. That’s earlier than the precise vote. Outcomes will likely be had by the Conservative marketing campaign and counted. Are you going to be placing your papers again in to run for mayor once more, or are you going to take your probabilities with the Conservatives?
Patrick Brown, Conservative Management Candidate: Now proper now, my solely intention is to run for the Conservative management. I imagine we have to defeat the Liberals within the subsequent election. Canada proper now’s a monetary basket case with Justin Trudeau and his NDP coalition and so we have to win. And I simply don’t imagine that Pierre has the capability to win the following election. I believe it will be a return of Justin Trudeau and for that cause I’m totally dedicated to this. I’ve mentioned, and I’m certain that is a part of the equation behind the query, is I’ve mentioned that I might not be concerned with operating within the GTA for Pierre Poilievre within the subsequent election if he was profitable, partly as a result of I don’t imagine even a preferred mayor might win within the GTA below his management. I simply assume his monitor report, his historical past and his positions are too divisive for electoral success within the GTA and albeit, if you happen to take a look at Doug Ford’s latest success within the GTA, and the success I’ve had within the GTA, it’s with a really completely different model of conservatism than what Pierre is presenting.
Mercedes Stephenson: So is {that a} no that you just undoubtedly won’t be placing your papers in to run once more for mayor in August? Since you mentioned proper now, however is that off the desk fully?
Patrick Brown, Conservative Management Candidate: No. What I’m saying is that I’m operating for this federal Conservative management. I haven’t given any consideration to returning to municipal politics. If we bought to some extent the place it seemed like Pierre was going to win this management, then actually that’s a dialog I’d need to have. However I believe we’re nowhere close to that time. I proceed to imagine that we are able to win this management. I proceed to imagine that we are able to beat Pierre Poilievre and be sure that we even have the capability to defeat Justin Trudeau within the subsequent election.
Mercedes Stephenson: You’ve made some overseas coverage statements which can be controversial, together with issues such as you would not designate the Tamil Tigers as a terrorist group. You’ve mentioned that you’d have a no-fly zone over Ukraine. Canada has the power to implement that with out the USA. And also you’ve additionally been criticized as being too near some people and teams which can be intently related to the Chinese language authorities in Beijing. That final one is of specific curiosity to me. What’s your place on China and on Beijing, Mr. Brown?
Patrick Brown, Conservative Management Candidate: So I’m blissful to reply all of these. Initially, on the subject of the Tamil Canadians, we had been on the incorrect aspect of that genocide. The UN has acknowledged that it was the Sri Lankan authorities that dedicated struggle crimes than genocide. The European Union had D-listed the Tamil Tigers in 2017. Canada owes the group an apology and will have performed that D-listing and adopted the worldwide group.
By way of Ukraine, I’ve mentioned by NATO we should always advocate to at the very least have on the desk, a no-fly zone. The one factor that President Zelenskyy’s asking for is the one factor that NATO hasn’t responded to and I need us to be an ally and a staunch supporter of the folks of Ukraine going through the barbaric invasion of Vladmir Putin. It must be greater than phrases and press conferences. I need tangible help and really responding to the Ukrainian authorities’s request for extra tangible help.
By way of China, I noticed there was an article about Senator Victor Oh’s help for my marketing campaign and Councillor Joe Li. Let me say I’ve identified these people for 20 years. Victor Oh was appointed to the Senate by Stephen Harper, was one of many precept leaders within the Chinese language-Canadian group below Andrew Scheer, below Erin O’Toole. He is a celebration stalwart and so a number of the branding that has been given to Joe Li or Victor, I believe is unwelcome and unfair. However I might say on points that relate to China, after all I’m going to be outspoken towards the Uyghur genocide. It’s incorrect. I help non secular freedom in every single place on the planet. I help democracy in Taiwan and Hong Kong. On the identical time, and I’ve made this clear within the get together debates, I imagine you possibly can advance human rights and have a viable commerce relationship on the identical time. I’ve referenced our capability to export LNG to China. I imagine Canada could be an power superpower and one of many methods is to export our LNG to China that’s reliant on coal-fired era. It might be a win for Canada’s financial system. It might create jobs in Canada. On the identical time, it will scale back China’s reliance on fossil fuels.
Mercedes Stephenson: Mr. Brown, that’s on a regular basis we’ve for immediately. However thanks a lot for becoming a member of us and we respect listening to your perspective.
Patrick Brown, Conservative Management Candidate: My pleasure.
Mercedes Stephenson: Conservative management candidate Jean Charest will be a part of us subsequent week, and we’ve additionally prolonged an open invitation to Pierre Poilievre. We’ll see if he takes us up on that. And we’ll be proper again after the break.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: That’s it for our present for immediately. Thanks for spending your time with us. We’ll be again right here subsequent Sunday. For The West Block, I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Have an excellent day.
