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The West Block – Episode 32, Season 11 – National

THE WEST BLOCK

Episode 32, Season 11

Sunday, June 5, 2022

Host: Mercedes Stephenson

Company:

Defence Minister Anita Anand

Former Governor Basic David Johnston 

Location: Ottawa, ON

 

Mercedes Stephenson: This week on The West Block: Canadian pilots pushed into the hazard zone. China escalates with aggressive new ways that threat a mid-air collision, the International Information unique on Chinese language fighter jets buzzing Canadian planes from just some metres away, whereas flipping Canadian crews the center finger.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “The truth that China would have chosen to do that is extraordinarily troubling.” 

Mercedes Stephenson: Plus, navy sexual misconduct. A scathing report calls for an overhaul of the Canadian Armed Forces. After years of extra of the identical, Justice Arbour says it’s politicians who should make the modifications.

Former Supreme Courtroom Justice Louise Arbour: “The minister and the Division of Nationwide Defence have an essential function to play.”

Mercedes Stephenson: Will Defence Minister Anita Anand tackle that duty when the federal government has denied and deflected earlier than?

Former Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan: “I used to be simply as shocked as everybody else.”

Mercedes Stephenson: And it’s the queen’s Platinum Jubilee. We’ll converse with former Governor Basic David Johnston about his relationship with the queen and her 70-year reign.

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: “So I am going into the kitchen and lo and behold, right here is the queen setting the desk. So I started to assist her set the desk.” 

Mercedes Stephenson: It’s Sunday, June 5th, and that is The West Block.

Whats up and thanks for becoming a member of us at present. I’m Mercedes Stephenson.

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In 2022, ‘hot-dogging’ pilots have been one thing we anticipated on the large display screen in Prime Gun however not in actual life.

“Prime Gun” Paramount House Leisure: “I can’t get them off my tail.”

Mercedes Stephenson: That’s till China began to vary its tune and aggressively buzzed Canadian jets on a UN mission from as shut as 20 toes away. This has occurred over two dozen instances, and the Canadian navy says it’s unsafe and unprofessional. However that hasn’t stopped China.

Defence Minister Anita Anand joins me now to speak about this, and naturally, that crucial report from Louise Arbour into navy sexual misconduct. Thanks for becoming a member of us, minister, a busy portfolio for you as all the time. I’d like to begin with what’s occurring with the Canadian Air Power and China, as a result of it’s such an unbelievable story about how shut these jets are getting. The Canadian planes are on a United Nations mission. It’s fully sanctioned. They’re over worldwide airspace and this appears actually harmful. And your authorities has requested China to cease on, my understanding, is three separate events, however they don’t seem to be stopping. What’s the following step to deal with this?

Defence Minister Anita Anand: Nicely Mercedes, I couldn’t agree along with your extra. That is an especially critical and regarding scenario. Of their interactions with the RCAF plane deployed, Chinese language plane merely didn’t adhere to worldwide air security norms. And, what they did do is to strategy sand try to divert our patrol plane from their flight path, and these interactions are unprofessional. They put the security of our RCAF personnel in danger, and in some situations, the RCAF plane felt sufficiently in danger that they needed to shortly modify their very own flight path with the intention to improve separation and keep away from a possible collision. Now we have, and can proceed, to deal with these issues via diplomatic channels.

Mercedes Stephenson: If there’s a risk of a mid-air crash right here, which might kill the entire crew, that’s clearly very, very critical and it looks as if a possible navy escalation. Is {that a} concern for you?

Defence Minister Anita Anand: We are going to all the time get up for the security of our aircrews. Chinese language plane should keep an expert distance from RCAF plane flying in a UN sanctioned mission in worldwide airspace. Interval.

Mercedes Stephenson: Minister Anand, I need to switch now to a different crucial matter, which in fact is navy sexual misconduct. It’s one thing your authorities has stated that you’re dedicated to altering. And that report from Louise Arbour got here out on Monday. You have been there. I used to be there. We have been speaking about it. And one of many issues that basically struck me about this report that was completely different from the various, many reviews that each of us have learn concerning the points within the navy, is that it laid the duty for change at your toes and on the prime minister’s toes. It stated look, the navy will not be going to vary, left to their very own gadgets. Politicians are the oversight and they should do one thing. So what does oversight of the Canadian Armed Forces appear like for you as minister, to convey these modifications about?

Defence Minister Anita Anand: Nicely I imagine deeply within the construction of civ-mil relationships that’s set out within the Nationwide Defence Act. In different phrases, I do have oversight and should work at the side of the chief of defence workers and the deputy minister and our respective groups, to make sure that reform of the Canadian Armed Forces happens alongside the strains of what Madame Arbour really useful in her report. And that’s the reason I agree with and assist all the suggestions, and I do count on our officers to look at shortly how we are able to convey this to fruition. And if not, why not? I’ll transfer to implement 17 of the 48 suggestions instantly and have requested my officers to convey ahead the plan for the rest of these suggestions. Two procedural guideposts that are extraordinarily essential are the appointment of an exterior monitor, in addition to reporting to Parliament earlier than the top of 2022. Each of these suggestions, we’re engaged on proper now.

Mercedes Stephenson: Louise Arbour appeared very sceptical of the political will to do that, and he or she famous that within the interim suggestion she’d given to you and the division, she needed to check-in each month to mainly drive progress. The day that the navy sexual misconduct report got here out, which your authorities knew was coming for months, was the identical day the prime minister went to a gun management announcement, a gun management announcement that in all probability might have been made any time this week. What sort of political sign does that ship about your dedication and the prime minister’s dedication to getting this performed when it form of will get buried beneath this different large political announcement that had no direct hook to that day?

Defence Minister Anita Anand: Really, I spoke with the prime minister at size previous to the press convention on Monday and we’re each in settlement that this report is basically essential and the time is now to behave and make sure that cultural change within the navy does happen and that ladies and all people within the navy are capable of serve our nation free from discrimination, sexual harassment and sexual misconduct. I’ll say, Mercedes that the query does come and the scepticism is there about whether or not this time can be completely different. And what I can say is that I’m decided. From day one, I’ve said that my prime precedence is to make sure that all people can work in an atmosphere the place they’re protected and revered and guarded. As nicely, I’ve a really robust working relationship with Basic Eyre and with my Deputy Minister Invoice Matthews. And the efficacy of our staff will see motion on the Arbour report. Aussitot que doable, 15 suggestions—17 suggestions instantly and the rest we’ll report on to Parliament earlier than the top of the 12 months.

Mercedes Stephenson: With all due respect, minister, I heard very related issues from Minister Kenney again in 2015 when he talked about Jon Vance and that this was going to be the change. Their authorities was dedicated. They have been taking it severely and but, once you acquired all these suggestions, it sounded such as you have been nonetheless saying we’re going to check it, we’re going to have a look at it. And within the report, Louise Arbour truly stated there’s little or no political worth to pay once you preserve saying you’re analyzing and analyzing. And it appeared like that’s what you have been saying on Monday. So how is it going to be completely different this time?

Defence Minister Anita Anand: Once more, I completely perceive the scepticism. And all I can say is you will notice the progress as this 12 months unfolds. Now we have hit the bottom working with this report. I’ve had a number of conferences and conversations this week alone on how we can be shifting ahead with implementing the report. And as I stated, that may embody the appointment of the exterior monitor, which is an oversight mechanism of kind to make sure the environment friendly and efficient implementation of the suggestions. I’ll report back to Parliament earlier than the top of the 12 months, and we’ll transfer to implement these 17 suggestions instantly. And by way of additional evaluation, that you just talked about some scepticism about, the evaluation is for the officers in my division to current the roadmap ahead for implementing the suggestions, not evaluation writ massive. It is extremely, crucial to me by way of the mandate that I’ve been given from the prime minister by way of residing to the spirit and content material of the Arbour report, for us to maneuver ahead shortly. And that’s precisely what we’ll do.

Mercedes Stephenson: And that each one sounds nice, however it all the time sounds nice when persons are trying and saying they’re going to maneuver ahead. So I suppose my query to you because the minister of nationwide defence then, and could be to the prime minister as nicely, do the 2 of you are taking private duty if there’s not a change within the navy, if we proceed to see these scandals occurring sooner or later?

Defence Minister Anita Anand: Nicely as I stated, I do take it as certainly one of my duties to place in place the institutional buildings which is able to result in the cultural change within the Canadian Armed Forces and the bigger defence staff, together with by way of discrimination, which is morally unacceptable and which operationally hampers our capacity to have an effect on recruitment and retention. I imagine that this can be a key second for the Canadian navy. That is the second that we have to deal with, the very critical points specified by the Arbour report and the report converse for that, as a result of as I stated, we’ve got an ethical crucial in addition to an operational crucial. The efficacy of our armed forces, the flexibility for us to develop and proceed to defend our nation and have interaction in operations nationally and internationally will depend on us getting this proper. And that’s the reason it’s so essential to me personally, in addition to to our authorities. 

Mercedes Stephenson: Are you keen to decide to altering the Nationwide Defence Act in order that sexually based mostly felony offences are completely moved to the civilian system?

Defence Minister Anita Anand: I moved in a short time, as you recognize, to simply accept the interim suggestion of Madame Arbour in order that we are able to guarantee procedural safeguards for victims and survivors of sexual misconduct and sexual harassment. The advice specified by the report, suggestion #5 that you just’re referring to does contain the elimination of concurrent jurisdiction. That suggestion does require a roadmap ahead to be introduced to me, and that’s precisely what I’m ready for from my division by way of a response to Madame Arbour’s suggestion in that regard.

Mercedes Stephenson: Minister Anand, I’m certain we’ll be following up with you on that sooner or later. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us at present.

Defence Minister Anita Anand: I sit up for our subsequent dialog. Thanks a lot, Mercedes.

Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, because the queen celebrates her Platinum Jubilee with pomp and pageantry, we’ll discover out what Her Majesty is absolutely like and talk about the way forward for the monarchy with former Governor Basic David Johnston.

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Mercedes Stephenson: Governor Basic Mary Simon met with the queen in the course of the Platinum Jubilee celebrations in the UK. The queen has a particular bond with Canada. She’s made 22 official visits over her 70-year reign. Whereas her relationship with Canada and Canadians is shut and historic, there are questions concerning the monarchy’s future.

I sat down with former Governor Basic David Johnston at his residence close to Ottawa, to speak about his private encounters with the queen and whether or not the royals will proceed to be part of Canada.

Your Excellency, it’s so good to see you. Thanks for making time for us at present.

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: What a delight to be with you, Mercedes. Name me David.

Mercedes Stephenson: You’ve all the time been such a heat and personable public determine. And I keep in mind assembly you once you have been the governor basic and also you have been telling me about the way you and your spouse vacuumed on Christmas dinner. You set your personal desk. You’re very all the way down to earth. And after we have been chatting simply earlier than the interview, you have been speaking just a little bit concerning the queen and what she’s like, and I used to be struck once you described her as being very all the way down to earth, too. Not a whole lot of Canadians have had a possibility to satisfy the queen. Inform us what she’s like.

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: I want extra Canadians might get to know her extra personally. I imply, we see her considerably eliminated, aloof, the monarch and so forth, and he or she carries out these duties very nicely, Mercedes however she’s a exceptional human being. She could be very sensible, nice sense of humour. Very considerate and gracious and is only a grasp of setting folks comfortable. And I can inform you tales about that if we’ve got time of simply how…

Mercedes Stephenson: We’d love to listen to a few of these tales, completely.

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: Nicely one is we have been actually lucky, Mercedes, my appointment as GG was introduced on this June of 2010, to be sworn in in October. And the customized is, you go to London, to Buckingham Palace for tea with the queen, for her to current the oath of workplace, the Fee so to talk and that’s it. Nicely, we have been invited to return in August to go to. And to our nice delight, we realized that they spend the month of August at Balmoral Fortress in Scotland. And that’s a 50-thousand acre property they usually safe the perimeter, however within the centre the place the so-called fortress is, it’s an excellent manor home and it’s all very casual. And we got here with each stick of—each sew of formal clothes we thought we would want and we by no means put any of it on in the course of the weekend. We wore leisure garments. However the first evening—we have been there for the weekend—it was the Friday evening and we have been sitting on the dinner desk and the queen, who loves horses, she’ll take a name from her horse supervisor earlier than she’ll take the prime minister’s name. And my spouse, who ran a 36 horse steady in Waterloo earlier than we got here to Ottawa, loves horses. And so she says, “My pricey, Sharon, we’ll spend the morning within the stables with the horses and my husband and your husband can do what they need to do, seeing the place the honey is an so on.” And Sharon had a giant smile on her face after which she regarded down at her toes. After which she stated, “However I don’t have any leisure sneakers.” And Prince Phillip regarded beneath the desk and to her toes, “Similar measurement, I believe, my pricey.” So the queen goes as much as her bed room and comes again with a pair of Brogue’s and that’s what Sharon wore for the weekend. And that was the queen.

Mercedes Stephenson: That’s superb. What did it really feel like spending time at Balmoral with these two individuals who we usually see on a balcony or on our cash however not as human beings?

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: Nicely they made us really feel as if we have been family members and have been there for only a nice weekend with them. And it was simply that: nice weekend. Not a lot of the formality. The tip of time after we left on Sunday, one of many ladies-in-waiting handed me the Fee and another medals and so forth, and he or she stated, “You’ll in all probability want these someplace in your workplace simply to make it official.” After which she stated as we have been leaving, “I do learn letters, you recognize.” And I stated, “Nicely, I can be completely satisfied to write down letters, Your Majesty. And once you discover that they’re uninteresting and boring, let me know and I’ll stop and desist.” So I started the customized of writing to her each—virtually each quarter. And never a form of a diplomatic ambassador’s stage however a few of the insights into what was occurring in Canada and to some extent about our household. And she or he was very occupied with our household.

Mercedes Stephenson: And do you continue to write to her now?

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: Sure. Much less so, however sure. Because the letters—once more, her great sense of humour—after we have been there, we had a Saturday BBQ at shepherd’s huts that had been remodeled to have form of an outside celebration. And after we arrived there, Prince Phillip bought out of the Land Rover, which he drove, and he or she bought out of the Land Rover, which she drove with Sharon, and he started to BBQ venison and I went over to assist him. He’d shot the venison the earlier weekend on the property. And it was very clear that he didn’t want my assist, so I am going into the kitchen. And low and behold, right here is the queen setting the desk. So I start to assist her set the desk: knives and forks and so forth. It wasn’t 4 fork form of factor, and many others. She says, “You do this very nicely. Your mom could be more than happy.” And I assumed my mom would one, be just a little bit astonished, however she would say, “I hope you too can be a great governor basic.” And the customized of that’s the queen.

Mercedes Stephenson: That’s unbelievable to see the particular person behind all of that protocol.

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: It’s extraordinary, Mercedes, and I inform these tales and you are worried just a little bit about form of taking liberties of, you recognize, what are non-public conversations and so forth, however for me, she’s a exceptional particular person by way of her sense of obligation. The chief is servant, and that’s been so essential to her. And right here we’re 70 years later for her time as our sovereign, persevering with to keep up the dignity and the steadiness, and the reliability and the significance of our structure. And likewise, she has these exceptional human qualities, and I’d really need folks to grasp that second a part of her persona.

Mercedes Stephenson: There have definitely been public challenges to the monarchy in recent times, all the things from inner household dynamics, to questions concerning the establishments colonial historical past. The place do you see the monarchy in Canada’s future? How does it keep related? Ought to it keep related? You’re a really considerate particular person and I’m occupied with your opinion on that.

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: Nicely initially, we’re the product of a thousand years of constitutional historical past and you’ll evolve so much throughout a time period like that. And it’s a beautiful custom, to me, the West Minster custom of democracy with a divided Crown. You may have a head of state, which is the non-political monarch after which her representatives: Governor Basic of Canada, lieutenant governors of the ten provinces, commissioners of the Territories, and that head of state operate is the dignified Crown. It’s the steadiness. It’s the continuity. It’s guaranteeing that you just all the time have a authorities in place, and many others., and defending the structure. Then you could have the opposite aspect of the Crown, which is the pinnacle of presidency. That’s our elected representatives, prime minister, cupboard and so forth. They’ve the enterprise of presidency and the truth that we’ve got these two elements of the Crown, I believe are very useful as a result of the enterprise of presidency could be the hurly burly of doing issues, elevating taxes and making choices and defending ourselves. However then you could have, as [00:07:29], the Dignified Crown which is answerable for constitutional issues, for honours, for reinforcing the elemental values and inspiring that there’s a long term view on how our society capabilities. And our system has developed through the years and developed particularly in 155 years or so since Confederation, and it’ll proceed to evolve to satisfy explicit instances. However when younger folks ask me that query, I say, “You realize, if you happen to look all over the world and also you need to determine seven or eight or 9 nations that is probably not good however actually have well-functioning democracies, who would you could have? I’d wager you’d have on that listing: Norway, Sweden, Denmark, United Kingdom, Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Canada. What’s frequent to these? All of them have hereditary constitutional monarchies they usually work fairly nicely and have been capable of work fairly nicely.”

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Mercedes Stephenson: What did you consider the requires the Crown to apologize for its historical past with Indigenous folks in Canada and Indigenous folks in different colonies?

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: Nicely it’s a really tough enterprise. I believe it’s been crucial that there be apologies as to what’s occurred on the residential faculties and different issues, however the Crown, the queen or the king, whoever occurred to be in energy at the moment, don’t have the facility. The ability a minimum of within the final 150 years has been our elected representatives as the pinnacle of presidency. And the pinnacle of state whereas signing issues into regulation, and many others., usually are not those which are truly the architects or the executioners of a selected coverage. I suppose Queen Victoria was not fairly on the throne but, however when our residential faculty system got here into being in 1870 or so, Queen Victoria didn’t say there’ll be residential faculties in Canada. That was the choice by our authorities’s, and many others. And so I believe it’s applicable for the pinnacle of state to apologize on behalf of governments for the tragedies that happen. However by way of direct duty, our system doesn’t have that, nor ought to it. We’re a democracy and our elected governments make these choices.

Mercedes Stephenson: Your Excellency, thanks for sitting down with us and sharing your reminiscences and your views. I do know Canadians love listening to from you and we definitely respect the prospect to have this dialog.

Former Governor Basic David Johnston: A delight, Mercedes, all too brief as all the time.

Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, we’ll be proper again with extra of the sights and sounds from the Queen’s Platinum Jubilee celebrations. 

[Break]

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Mercedes Stephenson: At the moment is the ultimate day of celebrations to mark the queen’s Platinum Jubilee, a time to mirror on her 70 years on the throne.

The queen was solely 27 at her Coronation on June 2nd, 1953. She pledged a lifetime of obligation and repair to the UK and the Commonwealth.

Queen Elizabeth II: “I declare earlier than you all that my complete life, whether or not or not it’s lengthy or brief, shall be dedicated to your service.”  

Mercedes Stephenson: Now at 96-years-old, Her Majesty is graciously slowing down however clearly, no much less devoted.

That’s it for our present for at present. Thanks for watching. We hope to see you right here subsequent Sunday. For The West Block, I’m Mercedes Stephenson.



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