The West Block – Episode 28, Season 11 – National
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 28, Season 11
Sunday, Might 8, 2022
Host: Eric Sorensen
Visitors:
Karina Gould, Households, Youngsters and Social Growth Minister
Peter MacKay, Former Conservative Cupboard Minister
Sabrina Nanji, Queen’s Park Observer
Robert Benzie, The Toronto Star
Location: Ottawa, ON
Eric Sorensen: This week on The West Block: Shockwaves in the USA after a leaked Supreme Court docket draft opinion to overturn abortion rights.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “In Canada, everybody has a proper to secure and authorized abortion.”
Eric Sorensen: However how will the federal government handle lack of entry in lots of elements of the nation? We’ll communicate to the minister of households.
Leslyn Lewis, Conservative Get together Chief Candidate: “You didn’t even go to the trucker protest.”
Jean Charest, Conservative Get together Chief Candidate: “You can’t make legal guidelines and break legal guidelines.”
Pierre Poilievre, Conservative Get together Chief Candidate: “And censorship you’ll count on from Justin Trudeau however as an alternative, we’re getting it from this Liberal.”
Eric Sorensen: Conservative management candidates sq. off of their first unofficial however very heated debate. Former management candidate and cupboard minister Peter MacKay weighs in.
And…
Doug Ford, Ontario Premier: “If you wish to get it achieved, you’ve one alternative.”
Andrea Horwath, Ontario NDP Get together Chief: “That’s job primary: defeating Doug Ford.”
Steve Del Duca, Ontario Liberal Get together Chief: “Doug Ford doesn’t have the capability to guide this province.”
Eric Sorensen: Ontario voters head to the polls June 2nd. A race to win and may very well be a race for second.
It’s Sunday, Might 8th, and that is The West Block.
Howdy and thanks for becoming a member of us. I’m Eric Sorensen.
The U.S. abortion debate spilled into Canada final week, with a lot of it right here targeted on girls’s entry to abortion companies in areas exterior of main city centres.
The Liberal authorities has promised to develop entry, however when and the way? We’re joined now by Karina Gould, the minister of households, youngsters and social growth.
Ms. Gould thanks for becoming a member of us. First query: Do you agree that there’s not sufficient entry to abortion companies on this nation?
Karina Gould, Households, Youngsters and Social Growth Minister: To start with, let me simply say that I feel what occurred on Monday in the USA with the leak of the proposed—draft proposal in relation to Roe versus Wade, is one thing that could be very alarming. And what we have to be guaranteeing right here in Canada, is that we’re defending that entry, that’s primary, after which we have to make it possible for we’re increasing it. And so, you understand, we have to be doing all the things we will to make sure that if somebody wants entry to sexual and reproductive well being companies that that service is out there to them wherever they reside on this nation.
Eric Sorensen: Effectively, you’ve had a couple of days now to kind of soak up what occurred south of the border, and the federal government has had seven years to take motion. Are you dedicated to extend an entry to abortion in that case? And in that case, how will you do it?
Karina Gould, Households, Youngsters and Social Growth Minister: Effectively, we’ve already taken plenty of steps. And let’s be clear, the very first thing we now have to do is defend it as a result of similar to in Canada, we’re not resistant to the forces that wish to restrict or prohibit a lady’s proper to entry abortion companies in Canada. In reality, you understand, within the Home of Commons proper now, there are a selection of Conservative MPs that voted simply final yr to limit a lady’s proper to entry abortion So we now have to, to start with, get up and defend it. We’ve already taken motion via the Canada Well being Act in New Brunswick, for instance, the place they restricted girls’s rights to entry surgical abortions and so we held again among the Canada Well being transfers because of this, and we’ll proceed to try this throughout the nation if crucial. There are Conservative premiers on this nation proper now who’re taking steps, whether or not it’s in New Brunswick to restrict entry, or whether or not it’s in Ontario the place, you understand, Premier Doug Ford truly overturned a legislation that will have protected well being care suppliers and sufferers searching for sexual well being and reproductive companies from being the goal of protest. That buffer zone legislation that was put in place, one of many first issues he did was overturn it. So, we nonetheless have work to do right here on this nation, however that’s completely the work that we’re dedicated to doing on the federal degree.
Eric Sorensen: Your accomplice in governing, Jagmeet Singh, says it’s—or suggests it’s a whole lot of speak and no actual motion. And I’m not listening to from you, any specifics as to what are you going to do subsequent to deal with the truth that there may be not entry all over the place. Even in New Brunswick, which you talked about, it’s not like there’s abruptly a rise in entry.
Karina Gould, Households, Youngsters and Social Growth Minister: Effectively—however so we now have to keep in mind that it’s provinces and territories that present well being care companies. However that’s why we’re utilizing the instruments obtainable on the federal degree. The Canada Well being Act, for instance, you understand, we held again funding in New Brunswick. We additionally held again funding in Ontario simply this March. , we’re utilizing the instruments that we now have on the federal degree, and the opposite factor that we did in Finances 2021 final yr, was we dedicated $45 million to assist neighborhood organizations and clinics that assist weak teams specific to entry abortion companies, and we’ll proceed to try this. It’s within the mandate letter of Minister Duclos and Minister Ien. And, you understand, we are going to proceed to work with provinces and territories as a result of it’s enshrined in our Constitution of Rights. The Supreme Court docket resolution in Canada in 1988, when the Morgentaler resolution got here out that it’s the proper of the safety of individual, of a lady, to have entry to these abortion companies. We’ve got to guard it and we now have to maintain working with provinces and territories to develop that entry.
Eric Sorensen: Particularly, would you contemplate free contraception to help younger folks in, you understand, not getting pregnant within the first place?
Karina Gould, Households, Youngsters and Social Growth Minister: Effectively, let’s be very clear. I imply, the explanation why folks entry abortion is for a complete vary of causes, and contraception shouldn’t be 100 per cent efficient. That doesn’t imply that we shouldn’t do all the things we will to assist individuals who select to make use of contraception, to entry it. However, I feel we now have to be clear that, you understand, it’s not all the time as a result of somebody’s not utilizing contraception that they’re searching for entry to an abortion. So, I feel we simply need to make it possible for that’s there and we have to assist folks it doesn’t matter what the reason being that they should entry these companies.
Eric Sorensen: No. Simply we’re taking a look at probably a set of choices. It’s simply that we’re not listening to of any but. You’re saying that you just’re sort of addressing it and also you’ve, you understand, you’ve hinted Ontario, you’ve hinted New Brunswick. That hasn’t achieved something and there have been a number of years to go. Will you meet with the premiers or the well being ministers provincially to see if there isn’t some, you understand, a way in which you’ll be able to handle the issue?
Karina Gould, Households, Youngsters and Social Growth Minister: Effectively these conversations are ongoing. I imply the holdback from New Brunswick and Ontario, which is a powerful motion from the federal authorities to say that you’ve a accountability to supply these companies to your residents. So we’re utilizing the instruments that we now have, however none of these occurred in a vacuum. I imply, they occurred after conversations between the federal and provincial authorities, between the ministers. , these conversations are completely ongoing and positively, you understand, the message that we ship from the federal authorities is that, you understand, the provinces and territories have a accountability to uphold the Constitution of Rights of their residents in relation to entry to reproductive and sexual well being companies and positively, we are going to proceed to press that and to work with them.
Eric Sorensen: There’s an actual risk that younger American girls are going to be coming throughout the border to get entry to abortion companies right here. You’ve indicated that Canada could be open to that. What do you say to that phase of the inhabitants in Canada that isn’t comfy with abortion and could be uncomfortable to see that there’s going to be extra entry and extra folks coming into the nation so there’ll merely be extra abortions within the nation?
Karina Gould, Households, Youngsters and Social Growth Minister: Effectively to start with, it’s a constitution proper of each Canadian to have entry to this service. So that’s the proper that’s already enshrined in our constitution and one which we should uphold.
The second a part of it’s that, you understand, Roe v. Wade has not but been overturn. That being mentioned, there may be sufficient assist on the Supreme Court docket degree, however it doesn’t imply that entry to abortion could be restricted throughout your entire United States. There’ll nonetheless be states, for instance, California that, you understand, will likely be offering entry to abortion companies. And so it’s unlikely that for lots of People, Canada would be the first alternative in kind of the place they’re coming, however we might not flip somebody away. , they might nonetheless need to pay out-of-pocket as a result of they’re not coated by our provincial medical health insurance program. However the truth of the matter is, is which you could criminalize or make abortion unlawful. You’re not going to cease abortion. All you’re going to cease is secure abortion and also you’re going to cease saving lives. So, you understand, the very fact of the matter is, is yearly, there are 25 million unsafe abortions that occur all over the world and there’s very clear proof that the quantity, the proportion of abortions that happen in nations the place it’s authorized versus the place it’s unlawful, is roughly the identical. It’s simply you’ve safer abortions or you’ve harmful ones.
Eric Sorensen: Alright. Karina Gould, thanks for speaking to us.
Karina Gould, Households, Youngsters and Social Growth Minister: Thanks a lot, Eric.
Eric Sorensen: Up subsequent, after a raucous opening debate, all six Conservative candidates’ line up for an additional brawl this week. Peter MacKay is aware of what it’s like and he joins us subsequent.
[Break]
[Announcer]
Pierre Poilievre, Conservative Get together Chief Candidate: “The typical trucker has extra integrity in his pinky finger than you’ve in your total scandal-plagued Liberal cupboard.”
Jean Charest, Conservative Get together Chief Candidate: “However Mr. Poilievre, throughout that interval, supported an unlawful blockade. You can’t make legal guidelines and break legal guidelines….”
Eric Sorensen: That was a heck of a debate final Thursday amongst 5 of the six Conservative management candidates. And who higher to speak about the place that is going than a former chief of the Progressive Conservatives, former cupboard minister and a former candidate for the Conservative Get together management, Peter MacKay.
Peter, nice to have you ever. The elbows had been up. It was not all the time civil. Was that debate good for the get together?
Peter MacKay, Former Conservative Cupboard Minister: Effectively acrimonious, not civilized as you’ve mentioned. In brief, no, I don’t assume that portrays the picture that persons are in search of in political management. Having mentioned that, you understand, management contest by design are meant to check the medal of potential leaders and their concepts, and to see in the event that they’re powerful and in a position to defend and extra importantly, articulate these concepts and imaginative and prescient. However when it turns into private, whenever you see among the, you understand, actually pointed, sort of nasty exchanges on show in that debate, I don’t assume it bodes nicely and I—frankly, I don’t assume the general public impression of Canadians is constructive—shouldn’t be assigned to any political get together, it’s simply merely off-putting.
Eric Sorensen: So, you understand one of many large questions right here for the get together is electability. The get together has misplaced three elections in a row. Pierre Poilievre appears to be the frontrunner. After you noticed kind of his message, his model, certain possibly he can win the management. Can that win a normal election?
Peter MacKay, Former Conservative Cupboard Minister: Effectively I feel that’s the greatest query that the membership has to ponder. As you framed it, it’s what sort of chief is electable in most of the people, in a normal election? Now that election might not come till 2025, so some would argue that the brand new chief goes to have a big time period to craft themselves, probably even recreate among the picture or the narrative. However in essence, you understand, these areas notably city centres, locations like Atlantic Canada the place I’m, Quebec, most actually. These are areas the place the Conservative Get together has to make inroads in the event that they wish to type a authorities and let’s by no means lose sight of that truth. It’s about competitiveness within the subsequent normal election. I feel that Conservatives need to be, frankly, fairly involved about. Three elections, a attainable fourth electoral loss could be very exhausting to swallow for members of this get together.
Eric Sorensen: Jean Charest sort of confirmed—reminded a whole lot of us of what he’s able to as an orator and a debater. Does he scare the Liberals essentially the most do you assume, if it got here all the way down to that sort of query? Or is that one thing Conservative members are going to think about?
Peter MacKay, Former Conservative Cupboard Minister: Effectively, I feel, sure, frankly, to each. I feel that’s actually one thing that they’re contemplating, who’s most electable. Who’s going to present us the aggressive edge? Jean Charest is a recognized commodity. Arguably, all the candidates earlier than the membership are recognized and will likely be extra recognized by the date that they’re elected after which we’ll have this era that I discussed earlier. Jean Charest is an fascinating candidate as a result of he was in federal politics after all, for a big time period, a minister within the Mulroney authorities, been a frontrunner of the Progressive Conservative Get together. Then was pulled into, or known as to motion, to return to his residence province of Quebec, change into the Liberal chief, uncontested at the moment, after which change into premier, though he misplaced his first election. However—after which he has, you understand, a 10-year document as a premier. It’s fascinating to know, Eric, as you’ll know following these issues carefully, no provincial premier has ever, has ever change into the prime minister of Canada. And Jean Charest makes a compelling case and talked about that, in reality, within the debate. And so, he actually has much more to reply for in some methods and a whole lot of beforehand held positions and present positions to defend different candidates. Pierre Poilievre, I labored with in Ottawa as nicely. He was a part of the Harper authorities, so has these positions and document to defend as nicely. So, because the frontrunners, they’re very totally different in some ways and that was on full show within the debate, however let’s not overlook the method itself, the membership gross sales, critically necessary part. The persuasion part, because it’s typically known as, after which there’s the dynamic of this down poll assist. As we noticed within the final management contest, that is important and are there precise or perceived alignments between the candidates? All of that to say, Eric, is that this race is way from over. We don’t know what the ultimate voting pool quantity will appear like. And so I feel this primary debate was actually the proverbial shot throughout the bow for candidates to possibly make an early impression, however there’s a lot, and I’d recommend the bulk, are nonetheless undecided.
Eric Sorensen: We hardly have time to the touch on the others, like Leslyn Lewis, Patrick Brown. Among the many different candidates, is there any individual you’re in search of to have the ability to pierce what final Thursday appeared to be simply kind of a two-person debate?
Peter MacKay, Former Conservative Cupboard Minister: Effectively, you understand, one of many people who got here throughout, I assumed, in a really calm and deliberate means was Scott Aitchison. He, in reality, known as out the get together. Is that this what Canadians need, he mentioned in essence. Leslyn Lewis, I feel is leaning in additional, taking maybe a extra aggressive stance and going after Poilievre on a few of his positions. And Roman Baber is, you understand, the basic kind of underdog in a means. Though, I assumed he performed himself very nicely. Additionally offered a extra measured and considerate voice. He has a compelling story as somebody who got here to Canada from Russia as an adolescent and has actually, I feel, excelled and lived the Canadian dream as he places it. And so, I feel that, you understand, we now have a whole lot of high quality candidates and a few very fascinating concepts which can be but to be flushed out in the middle of the marketing campaign. So, we completed kind of the entry-level stage. Now we’re into the frantic and arguably most necessary aspect and that’s membership gross sales and getting assist not less than into place to vote for us.
One factor to remember, Eric, it’s not what number of memberships you promote. It’s how many individuals truly mark the x. That’s typically neglected.
Eric Sorensen: Peter, we’ll—I’m certain we’ll wish to examine in with you once more. It was nice speaking to you.
Peter MacKay, Former Conservative Cupboard Minister: Thanks, Eric. Nice speaking to you.
Eric Sorensen: Up subsequent, the Ontario election marketing campaign is off and operating. The massive query: Can anybody beat Doug Ford? Two Queen’s Park journalists will breakdown the race, subsequent.
[Break]
[Announcer]
Eric Sorensen: The Ontario election is in full swing and Doug Ford seems to have a giant head begin. An Ipsos ballot achieved for World Information provides Ford and the PCs a 13 level lead amongst determined voters. In what is perhaps a battle for second, the Liberals and NDP are neck and neck, and the Greens are additional again. Value noting, 13 per cent had been undecided. The ballot taken simply earlier than the race started.
Becoming a member of us now, Sabrina Nanji, Founding father of the Queen’s Park Observer, and Robert Benzie, Queen’s Park Bureau Chief for the Toronto Star.
Effectively, Doug Ford seemed to be cooked a few years in the past, Sabrina, and we’ve been via a pandemic. What turned it round for him?
Sabrina Nanji, Queen’s Park Observer: Yeah, what a distinction 4 years and a pandemic could make for the Conservative chief, Doug Ford. He’s closing out the primary week of the marketing campaign sitting fairly. I’m certain the Conservatives are feeling good proper now, as you talked about, you understand, main the pack by far in a whole lot of current polls and even within the GTA, too, which I feel is an space that may make or break you, and the larger query is whether or not he can pull out a majority or a minority. And he’s doing nicely within the GTA, and even Toronto correct in a single current ballot that we noticed. So, it nonetheless feels prefer it is perhaps anyone’s recreation. , it’s nonetheless early within the marketing campaign and campaigns matter. We’re nonetheless ready on some platform particulars and a full platform from the Liberals. However the Conservatives are getting in and feeling very assured.
Eric Sorensen: Rob, historical past favours Ford on this being elected to a second time period, that’s often the way in which the vote goes in Ontario. Ontarians virtually all the time vote for a premier of a distinct stripe from the prime minister, and right here’s the premier having a sort of a relationship with Justin Trudeau simply on the eve of the marketing campaign. Clarify what that’s all about.
Robert Benzie, The Toronto Star: Effectively you understand what, Eric? The 2-year pandemic, to Sabrina’s level, has modified the dynamic. And Premier Ford has labored very carefully with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. The provincial Conservatives and the federal Liberals have needed to work collectively on vaccines, on private protecting tools, on monetary helps for Canadians via the pandemic. In order that has sort of compelled Ford extra possibly extra into the center of the highway. He’s a distinct sort of candidate than he was 4 years in the past, rather more of a reasonable, frankly. I imply, the current price range that they’ve tabled simply earlier than the election that’s in reality, the Tory platform, the price range didn’t go the Home, it’s the largest spending price range by far within the historical past of Canada, or it’s historical past of Ontario, the largest provincial price range within the historical past of Canada, too, and spending one thing like $40 billion greater than Kathleen Wynne’s final price range. So 25 per cent greater than the earlier Liberal authorities’s greatest price range, and that was simply 4 years in the past. It’s a giant spending Conservative authorities. It’s not your sort of Mike Harris reduce taxes, reduce spending sort of regime.
Eric Sorensen: So Sabrina the place does that go away the opposition events? It seems like a battle for second or possibly a determined battle to not end third.
Sabrina Nanji, Queen’s Park Observer: Yeah, I feel the extra fascinating race right here is who’s going to type Official Opposition? , we’ve seen the Liberals sort of overtake the NDP in some polls. After all, you understand, politicians like to say the one ballot that issues is the one on Election Day, and there’s nonetheless a whole lot of time to go. However I feel it speaks to a powerful Liberal model in Ontario and we sort of noticed that within the final federal election in September, too, the place Ontario voted overwhelmingly in favour of the Trudeau Liberals. In order that places, you understand, Liberal chief Steven Del Duca in an fascinating place. , not a whole lot of of us know him and we will sort of see the get together begin to outline him a little bit bit extra. They put out some marketing campaign promoting, portray him as a giant of an everyman. , he’s cracking dad jokes along with his two daughters. He’s cooking within the kitchen along with his spouse. He’s getting private and talking about dropping his brother. So I feel—he’s even obtained some self-deprecating jokes about possibly his lack of charisma. So, I feel, you understand, he’s additionally obtained a whole lot of political baggage to beat, too, and we’ve seen his opponents attempt to outline him earlier than the get together does it themselves for the citizens. , he—they’ve been tying him to Kathleen Wynne’s extra unpopular choices.
Eric Sorensen: So Rob over to you on Andrea Horwath.
Robert Benzie, The Toronto Star: Effectively that is her fourth kick on the can, Eric. She’s been the New Democratic Chief since 2009, and in every election she’s achieved higher and higher. She took them from 20 seats earlier than 2018 to 40 seats. They’ve—however can she get the extra 23, 24 seats that she must have a majority authorities? That continues to be to be seen. The polls recommend that they’ve an issue towards the Tories in some areas of the nation and towards the Liberals in different areas of the province—nation. It’s a—so it’s a difficult three-dimensional chess for the New Democrats. It’s been powerful for them as Official Opposition as a result of for 2 of these years, we had been within the pandemic. So sure, they had been within the legislature, however there wasn’t the identical sort of dynamic within the Home as a result of, you understand, there weren’t very many individuals there. A whole lot of the speak was simply on the pandemic and COVID-19. It wasn’t about different issues that they now wish to speak about. And one of many issues I’m anticipating is extra pocketbook points from the NDP as a result of I feel there’s—that the Tories could also be weak on a few of that stuff. Gasoline costs hit $2 a litre on Friday in Toronto, a document. So persons are feeling the pinch of, you understand, hovering 6.7 per cent inflation. I feel that there—there might some vulnerability for the Tories on that entrance, however the NDP actually haven’t drawn blood on it but.
Eric Sorensen: Effectively, we’re out of the time. However there’s loads to observe for, so I do know you guys will likely be on prime of it. Thanks very a lot for speaking to us at this time.
Robert Benzie, The Toronto Star: Thanks Eric.
Eric Sorensen: And that’s our present for at this time. Thanks for watching. And to all of the mothers, we’d prefer to want you a really completely satisfied Mom’s Day. For The West Block, I’m Eric Sorensen. We’ll see you subsequent Sunday.
