The West Block – Episode 23, Season 11 – National
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 23, Season 11
Sunday, April 3, 2022
Host: Mercedes Stephenson
Company:
Natan Obed, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami President
Lesia Zaburanna, Ukrainian MP
Megan MacKenzie, Simon Fraser College
Location: Ottawa, ON
Mercedes Stephenson: This week on The West Block: An unprecedented delegation from Canada’s Inuit, Métis and First Nations communities, travels to the Vatican, and a historic apology.
Pope Francis [Voice of translator]: “And I wish to say to you with all my coronary heart, I’m very sorry.”
Mercedes Stephenson: Pope Francis asks for forgiveness for the Catholic Church’s involvement in Canada’s racist and abusive residential college’s system.
Chief Gerald Antoine: “We search to listen to these phrases of apology on our land and our houses.”
Mercedes Stephenson: We speak to Inuit chief Natan Obed about assembly the Pope, his apology, and what this visits means for reconciliation.
From their beloved Ukraine underneath assault, to Parliament Hill, Ukrainian MPs journey to Canada, to boost consciousness and ask for assist. We’ll communicate to the chair of the delegation about Russia’s invasion and what Canada can do.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “We have to, all of us, work collectively to rework, for the higher, the tradition of the armed forces.”
Mercedes Stephenson: Canada’s former prime soldier, retired Basic Jonathan Vance, pleads responsible to obstruction of justice and receives a conditional discharge. We’ll speak to an skilled concerning the message that sends to survivors of army sexual misconduct and what it means for efforts to alter the tradition within the Canadian Armed Forces.
It’s Sunday, April 3rd, and that is The West Block.
Hey. It’s so good to be again with you right here on The West Block, after reporting from Latvia, Ukraine and Moldova. I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Welcome to the present.
A historic apology from the Pope that was a long time within the making, delivered eventually.
Phil Fontaine, Former Nationwide Chief and Residential College Survivor: “This second, I feel, displays that the dedication and the braveness of many who saved up the struggle through the years.”
Mercedes Stephenson: That was former nationwide chief and residential college survivor, Phil Fontaine. He led the primary Indigenous delegation to the Vatican again in 2009.
The Pope’s acknowledgment of the trauma brought on by the church-run residential faculties and his declaration to return to Canada got here on the finish of an emotional week for the Inuit, Métis and First Nations delegates.
For extra on the importance of the Pope’s apology, I’m joined by Natan Obed, president of the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami. Thanks a lot for making time for us at this time, Natan. Are you able to inform us what this expertise of receiving the apology and the act of contrition from the Pope was like for you, personally?
Natan Obed, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami President: I’ve spent my profession working for Inuit in varied completely different roles, however from the residential college perspective, so many Inuit are affected by both having attended residential college or being intergenerational survivors of residential faculties, that means their mother and father or their caregivers went to varsities. There’s a lot trauma and a lot damage that has been generated from these faculties. And within the Catholic Church’s case, they’ve chosen to not apologize for now nearly 15 years after the Indian Residential College Settlement Settlement was finalized. After which in step with that timeframe, it was 2008, when the Canadian Authorities apologized to Indigenous peoples in Canada for residential faculties. So that is long-overdue. After which within the second, I had nice respect for Pope Francis, in that he will need to have taken a private function in guaranteeing that the apology occurred, and in addition the way in which wherein he delivered it, which as very empathetic and really considerate.
Mercedes Stephenson: Natan, as you’re saying, an emotional an historic apology, however they’re phrases and there are such a lot of actions that should be taken. What did these actions must seem like?
Natan Obed, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami President: Firstly, we name upon the Catholic Church to instantly present the $25 million that was a part of the Indian Residential College Settlement Settlement that ordered the Catholic Church to pay as restitution to First Nations, Inuit and Métis residential college survivors. We additionally name on the Catholic Church to do all that it could possibly, to implement not solely the Indian Residential College Settlement Settlement, but in addition the Fact and Reconciliation Fee’s Calls to Motion. We nonetheless hope that the Pope will come to Canada and apologize as per Name to Motion 58, to Indigenous peoples in Canada. We additionally hope that the Catholic Church will work with us in order that any information that they’ve related to the working of residential faculties are made public or made accessible to anybody who could possibly use them in a path in direction of therapeutic. We even have known as very clearly for the Pope himself, to talk with Johannes Rivoire, who’s a Catholic oblate, who is needed in Canada for prices of sexual abuse, and we want to see him extradited from France and we consider that the Pope can play an instrumental function, personally, intervening on this case, to see justice completed for the victims.
Mercedes Stephenson: I do know that’s a vital case in your neighborhood and for therefore many Canadians with the request that that priest, Johannes Rivoire, be introduced again to Canada, to face these allegations in opposition to him, that are extraordinarily critical, of sexual abuse.
When you find yourself trying on the Pope coming to Canada, to ship an apology right here, on Indigenous land in Canada, when do you assume that go to must seem like?
Natan Obed, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami President: We have to arrange it with the Canadian Council of Catholic Bishops and the Vatican in order that we’re all on the identical web page on how this go to will unfold. Pope Francis joked with us in his personal assembly with Inuit about he would love to return and go to us, however not within the winter. Truthful sufficient. You already know, Italy isn’t the identical as Inuit Nunangat relating to climate, and so I may see how he could be hesitant to return at -40. So we do hope that he’s in a position to go to certainly one of our communities in Inuit Nunangat as a part of the bigger go to to Canada, which is able to, I’m positive, contain going to First Nations and Métis communities as effectively. However we should be concerned on this and supply recommendation, and allowed to be a participant in the way in which that this all unfolds in order that we are able to do the absolute best job, to match the ambition of the Pope with the power to make one of the best of that for all of us.
Mercedes Stephenson: Natan, Inuit voices have usually been disregarded of discussions about reconciliation. Do you assume that that’s altering and the voices of your communities are actually going to be heard and extra outstanding on this dialogue?
Natan Obed, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami President: I feel we stay in a time the place there’s now an understanding of First Nations, Inuit and Métis, as a substitute of only a broad understanding that there are Indigenous peoples in Canada. We have now such a unique colonial historical past; we even have a unique relationship with the Authorities of Canada, whether or not it’s by laws or by federal authorities coverage. So, a distinctions-based method is critical to make sure that our voices are understood and heard within the largest conversations that occur on this nation about Indigenous peoples. I feel the extra that I’m on the air speaking to you about Inuit, the extra that Canadians perceive the distinction as effectively. Not very many Canadians have been to Inuit Nunangat, and other people know that there are Inuit who stay within the Arctic, however actually how we match into this nation and the way we match into reconciliation, additionally the methods wherein we match into the horrific file of residential faculties and in addition within the work that we had been doing with the church, it begins with information. It begins with understanding who we’re and the particular issues that we might have. And we’re very lucky to stay in a time the place our voice is being heard increasingly.
Mercedes Stephenson: Natan, thanks a lot for taking the time to share with us and to hitch us. And we sit up for chatting with you about this many mores occasions sooner or later as this progresses. Thanks once more, for making time for us.
Natan Obed, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami President: Completely. Thanks for having me.
Mercedes Stephenson: For anybody in want of help, there’s a 24-hour disaster line accessible to residential college survivors. The toll-free quantity is 1-800-721-0066.
Up subsequent, Ukrainian MPs take their message for assist to Ottawa. We communicate to the pinnacle of the delegation about why defending Ukraine’s democracy issues to the world.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: A delegation of Ukrainian MPs have left their nation behind, which is underneath siege, in an effort to journey right here to North America, with an pressing message for Ottawa and Washington: Ukraine wants extra army help and extra sanctions in opposition to Russia, in addition to humanitarian and monetary assist for his or her folks.
I’m joined now by the chair of that delegation, Lesia Zaburanna. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us. We’re sorry that it’s underneath the circumstances that it’s.
I used to be simply in Ukraine not way back. Definitely unimaginable struggle, unimaginable resistance, and resilience and dedication of your folks, however you’re right here speaking to Canadian and American politicians since you need assistance.
Lesia Zaburanna, Ukrainian MP: Sure, thanks for invitation. And initially, I want to say thanks for all Canadian folks, to Canadian authorities, for the help and for his or her efforts. You already know, that in Ukraine, we’re completely positive that Canada is without doubt one of the greatest associates for Ukraine. And now when we’ve got actually a horrible state of affairs in Ukraine, we want extra help. We want extra help out of your folks, out of your authorities, out of your Parliament. And also you’re completely proper. To begin with, right here, we are attempting to debate and to focus on three important points.
The primary one is army help. We completely consider in our nation. We completely consider in our folks, and we consider that can win. However, we want to spotlight that it’s not a battle between Russia and Ukraine. It’s a battle between evil and democratic world. So, we’ve got to win. And I’m positive that with Canadian help, Ukraine will likely be an emblem of victory on this battle.
The following one, we want extra Russian sanctions. We extremely recognize that Canada is courageous with this query and we all know that Canada began on the earth with Russian sanctions, however we want extra. We want robust sanctions.
And the final one, we’re additionally searching for new monetary devices for Ukraine, as a result of from the start of the battle, now we’ve got greater than $550 billion of monetary loss.
Mercedes Stephenson: Lesia, I do know you simply left Kyiv a number of days in the past and we had been speaking earlier than the present. You’re husband and your daughter, are nonetheless there. What does it really feel like being right here to ship this message? And do you’re feeling that Canadians and People and the world are listening to you?
Lesia Zaburanna, Ukrainian MP: You already know, it was an enormous problem for all of us to go away our nation, to go away our folks, and initially, our household and to go to North America, however we’re the members of parliament. We have now an obligation. We signify our folks. We have now to advocate our nationwide curiosity. And once we come again, we’ve got to reply to our folks what we do for that victory. And admittedly talking, we strive—don’t few. We tried to do every thing solely in rational method, as a result of it’s inconceivable in case you are making an attempt to gas one thing. You couldn’t do something. So we all know what we have to do and what we should do. And we are attempting to be very accountable on this.
Mercedes Stephenson: Your energy is so admirable and unimaginable, and we noticed that over and over once I was in Ukraine—simply superb willingness to struggle, and bravado and braveness. I’ve been requested over and over by Canadians, they wish to know what they’ll do, to assist Ukrainians. What would you say to our viewers at house about what they’ll do to assist your folks in Ukraine?
Lesia Zaburanna, Ukrainian MP: What we’d kindly ask all Canadian folks, you have got a consultant democracy in your nation, so please, push your authorities, push your Parliament, as a result of now Ukraine wants actions. We don’t want a protracted dialog, negotiations. We want actions. And Canadian folks can push their authorities, to behave.
Mercedes Stephenson: What do you assume comes subsequent for Ukraine? Folks have speculated over whether or not Vladimir Putin will again down, over whether or not he’ll change into extra aggressive and bomb civilian areas extra as he’s shedding this battle and in a stalemate with the Ukrainians. What are you anticipating as a Ukrainian chief, to occur in your nation subsequent?
Lesia Zaburanna, Ukrainian MP: You already know, lots of people ask us about peace talks, and I can say just one factor. We haven’t any peace talks. You already know, we don’t consider Putin, completely. We will likely be profitable in any negotiation, if we will likely be robust. And we will be robust provided that we can have army help. And solely after this, we’ll do what we’ve got to. We have now to kick out him from any inch of our territory. And we’ve got to cease collectively, Putin in Ukraine, as a result of we’re completely positive and all democratic leaders additionally know that if we won’t cease him in Ukraine, then subsequent it will likely be different European nations. And really, after all, it’s obscure, however that is truly the Third World Conflict began and we’ve got to cease Putin simply now.
Mercedes Stephenson: Lesia, a dire warning and one I’m positive many Canadians are listening to. Thanks for becoming a member of us at this time. Please have a secure journey again house, and our greatest needs to your loved ones.
Lesia Zaburanna, Ukrainian MP: Thanks. Thanks.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, a responsible plea however no felony file. What message does retired Basic Jonathan Vance’s verdict ship to the victims of army sexual misconduct? Navy tradition skilled Megan MacKenzie joins us after the break.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: Canada’s former prime soldier, Basic Jonathan Vance, pleaded responsible final week to obstructing justice. The court docket heard that Vance inspired Main Kellie Brennan, a subordinate with whom he had a clandestine intimate relationship, to misinform army police, to cowl it up.
World Information has obtained a replica of Brennan’s sufferer affect assertion, which was not learn in full in court docket. In it, Brennan’s says, “It sickens me to need to say I’ve acquired over 200 emails from different members that conveyed to me the hardships that they had additionally endured whereas they served.” She provides that, “As a soldier, I used to be educated to observe orders and respect my superiors. To seek out myself able the place my superior was abusing his energy, utilizing his authority to intimate and silence me was an entire betrayal of every thing I revered within the army.”
As a part of his conditional discharge, Vance should serve 12 months of probation and full 80 hours of neighborhood service. If he complies with these phrases, he gained’t obtain a felony file. That raises questions on what justice seems to be like as army sexual assault circumstances enter the civilian system.
Becoming a member of us now to speak about that is Simon Fraser College’s Megan MacKenzie. Megan, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us at this time. You had an opportunity to see what was mentioned in court docket. What had been your ideas on Jon Vance receiving a conditional sentence, which suggests there will likely be no felony file regardless of his responsible plea if he complies with the circumstances, and simply the way in which that this was dealt with by the authorities within the justice system?
Megan MacKenzie, Simon Fraser College: I imply, I feel it’s simply devastating. It’s devastating for—I’m devastated for victims. I’m devastated for all of people who had been hopeful that the previous yr was going to be kind of a watershed second. This was probably the most excessive profile case in a yr once we had case after case of senior leaders being confronted with allegations of sexual misconduct. So to have this culminate in a court docket listening to, the place basically the choose and Vance’s colleagues congratulated him for his service and targeted on the burden that these prices have been for him, and as you mentioned, that the sufferer assertion wasn’t even learn, I feel is simply so disappointing.
Mercedes Stephenson: We additionally know that the Crown instructed us that he advised Kellie Brennan change components of that assertion, she did. He says that she agreed to that. Clearly, that was fascinating, too, contemplating the truth that it was learn aloud in court docket. However what do you assume the message is that this sends to women and men within the Canadian forces who could be desirous about coming ahead with their very own tales? Will they nonetheless really feel there’s sufficient of a sea change that they’re in a position to try this? Or does this actually throw a wrench into issues?
Megan MacKenzie, Simon Fraser College: There’s no proof that there’s a sea change. There’s no proof that this has been a watershed second. I feel there’s plenty of rhetoric and there’s plenty of, I feel, good intentions and, you understand, hope and commitments, however by way of truly holding perpetrators accountable and really having zero tolerance for sexual misconduct, right here we see that even when a senior army chief admits guilt to a felony cost, finally he’s not going to—he’s unlikely to have a felony file. So, I can’t think about, you understand, it’s already very tough for victims to return ahead. It’s so private. It’s tough for his or her lives. There’s nothing for them to achieve, aside from a way of justice. And so for them to see a case like this resolved basically in a pat on the again and accolades slightly than a felony conviction, I feel, is actually discouraging.
Mercedes Stephenson: Once you take a look at the modifications which are underway, clearly they’re—we haven’t heard a lot about that aside from the dedication to maneuver sexual assault circumstances out of
the system. We’re nonetheless ready on the Arbour Report. The federal government gained’t reply our questions on precisely when that’s popping out, aside from to say that it’s going to be a while within the spring or in the summertime that that’s more likely to occur. Within the meantime, there are issues the army may do. For instance, Jon Vance ha quite a lot of army honours and awards. They might suggest to the governor basic that issues like his Order of Navy Advantage needs to be stripped. Do you assume that that’s one thing the army needs to be to ship a message within the wake of this verdict?
Megan MacKenzie, Simon Fraser College: I feel it’s one thing they need to be severely . I feel it could ship a powerful message. I feel what we see right here, is that—look, the civilian system isn’t nice at dealing with sexual misconduct circumstances both. And so merely shifting army circumstances into the civilian system isn’t going to be a silver bullet. We nonetheless have broader cultural points, and so I do assume eradicating somebody’s honours and the entire entry and advantages that they get from that’s a minimum of one thing within the face of a complete failure of holding somebody accountable by way of justice.
Mercedes Stephenson: What did you consider the political response to this? We requested the prime minister about it, we requested the defence minister and so they mentioned effectively, we are able to’t touch upon a felony case, and that was form of the top of it.
Megan MacKenzie, Simon Fraser College: Yeah, I feel that’s disappointing. I feel that we had a minister who expressed a really critical dedication to dealing with this situation and dealing with this situation means being accountable when you have got a transparent case the place there isn’t any accountable to perpetrators or alleged perpetrators, the place you have got one of many—effectively probably the most senior member of the Canadian Armed Forces who’s basically not going to face any felony prices. I do assume it’s vital for political leaders to weigh in and make clear their place, to make, you understand, clarifications round their commitments, and so they have the facility to do issues like stripping honours. So, I feel it’s not sufficient to kind of step again after which nonetheless use this rhetoric of cultural change. Effectively these are the examples that both change tradition or entrench tradition.
Mercedes Stephenson: Megan MacKenzie, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us at this time.
Megan MacKenzie, Simon Fraser College: Thanks for having me.
Mercedes Stephenson: That’s our present for at this time. Thanks for watching. We’ll be again right here subsequent Sunday. For The West Block, I’m Mercedes Stephenson.
